Gun stuff

[pardus]

If you are really looking for accuracy (1moa and better) from an M16 family platform...I think you would be hard pressed to find a better solution than the 18" barreled MK12 MOD 0/1...even suppressed it's length is unobtrussive.

Very nice, what kind of effective range are we talking?

 

[doorkicker]

I only feed it MK262 (77gr BH) and occassionally 80gr'ners.
I haven't taken it past 500m, but I am smashing clay pigeons at that range.

Here is a video of a buddy banging 12x18 piece of AR500 steel at 700 with his SPR (ignore the music)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K6aw8Cf-tI"]YouTube - MK12 Mod 0 Suppressed[/ame]

Someone mentioned earlier the ballistics between the 168gr/.308 being similiar to 77gr/5.56 and they are spot on, my BDC on my M3 is 168/.308 and it tracks 77gr great.

 

[HOLLiS]

Someone mentioned earlier the ballistics between the 168gr/.308 being similiar to 77gr/5.56 and they are spot on, my BDC on my M3 is 168/.308 and it tracks 77gr great.

I would be curious if you have the Ballistic coefficients for each bullet and velocity. I have a ballistic calculator some wheres. Be fun to run it through it, if I can find the calculator.

 

[CBTech]

Ive used and own the original, full length rifles, they are second to none!

Excellent rifles!

From what I hear DSA makes a better rifle than FN did :2c:

http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58OSW



Can someone explain the math to me?
Makes zero sense at all to me!

Get a shorter, ballisticly inferior barrel and add some shit on the end to make it the same length as a superior barrel? :uhh:
Why not just get the 16" in the first place? :confused:

Your 16 inch guns out there are actually 17.5" with the flash hider. If you get a rifle with a barrel of 14.5" then when you put a flash hider on it it becomes a "16 inch" legal gun. However, you then have to permanantly affix a flash hider so that you never fall sub legal inch req.s for barrel length.

I don't think the 14.5 barrel thing is worth it because you are locked in to whatever front sight you have on there because you can't slide it of with a permanatly attached flas hider.

I think if you are interested in short barrels it is worth it to just buy a SBR and pay the extra few hundred and pay the $200 tax to get the real shorty, 10.5".

 

[pardus]

Your 16 inch guns out there are actually 17.5" with the flash hider. If you get a rifle with a barrel of 14.5" then when you put a flash hider on it it becomes a "16 inch" legal gun. However, you then have to permanantly affix a flash hider so that you never fall sub legal inch req.s for barrel length.

I don't think the 14.5 barrel thing is worth it because you are locked in to whatever front sight you have on there because you can't slide it of with a permanatly attached flas hider.

I think if you are interested in short barrels it is worth it to just buy a SBR and pay the extra few hundred and pay the $200 tax to get the real shorty, 10.5".

Good points.

I would be curious if you have the Ballistic coefficients for each bullet and velocity. I have a ballistic calculator some wheres. Be fun to run it through it, if I can find the calculator.

I would be very interested in that info too.

 

[CBTech]

Thanks for the info Doorkicker

 

[doorkicker]

Your 16 inch guns out there are actually 17.5" with the flash hider. If you get a rifle with a barrel of 14.5" then when you put a flash hider on it it becomes a "16 inch" legal gun. However, you then have to permanantly affix a flash hider so that you never fall sub legal inch req.s for barrel length.

I don't think the 14.5 barrel thing is worth it because you are locked in to whatever front sight you have on there because you can't slide it of with a permanatly attached flas hider.

I think if you are interested in short barrels it is worth it to just buy a SBR and pay the extra few hundred and pay the $200 tax to get the real shorty, 10.5".

Do it right the first time and get an LMT MRP...barrel swaps take about 15 seconds...:eek: You're welcome.

I'll see what data I can dig up Hollis

 

[AssadUSMC]

Thanks again - let me clarify (again) ;)

These guns are STRICTLY for personal enjoyment and finger-f#$king. I get issued good stuff at work for the real deal (416 or Colt M4, Glocks). I am instructor for my organization, so I get lots of free plinking time when I'm at the range.

I am looking @ piston guns because of the maintenance/durability/functionality aspects. I am not and will never be a 1000-yd shooter, so I don't kid myself. Realistically, the only targets I'll be "engaging" with this piece will be the odd can or piece of fruit at 200m (hence the EO-Tech and not an ACOG or other magnified optic).

I have heard good and bad about Kimbers, but then I've heard the same thing about H&K, Glock, SIG, etc. - all guns I've had GREAT (i.e. PERFECT) experiences with.

Please keep up the banter, but don't get too serious on my behalf.

 

[AssadUSMC]

Do it right the first time and get an LMT MRP...barrel swaps take about 15 seconds...:eek: You're welcome.

I'll see what data I can dig up Hollis

That's a great rig right there - what's the breakdown, DK (lower, stock, etc.)?

 

[doorkicker]

That's a great rig right there - what's the breakdown, DK (lower, stock, etc.)?

POF 0-1-FA Lower
LMT MRP upper
Magpul UBR stock
Magpul front/rear BUIS
10.5" barrel with QD suppressor mount
14.5" barrel with Phantom FH
Chrome BCG
PRI M83 Gas Buster CH
Larue EOtech riser
EOtech 551
Tango Down grip

It's a DI gun, but LMT is selling the kit to convert to piston.

 

[AssadUSMC]

Thanks for that. I might have to emulate you if I can't dig up a piston gun. I trust LMT's products 100% and an MRP will be easier to get.

Just a sample of what I get to "play with" at work :)

 

[pardus]

Do it right the first time and get an LMT MRP...barrel swaps take about 15 seconds...:eek: You're welcome.

I'll see what data I can dig up Hollis

That is very cool!

 

[koz]

The BC's I got off of Sierra's page. The first ballistic calculator I used was on my phone. This one is from www.handloads.com/calc/ The FPS from the barrel are ones I've chrony'd using both handloads and factory loads.

www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=bc&bullettype=0

MK262 / 77gr HPBT Matchking Cannelured -
Inputs - 77gr, velocity 3000fps, Ball coef - .362, Alt - 0, Zero - 100

Energy & FPS @ Dist - Drop
1539, 3000, 0 , 0
1055, 2484, 200yds, 9.23
707, 2033, 400yds, 41.4
521, 1827, 500yds, 69.39


MK 262
Inputs same except velocity 2500fps
Energy & FPS @ Dist Drop
1069, 2500, 0, 0
713, 2042, 200yds , 13.31
462, 1644, 400yds, 60.63
370, 1471, 500yds, 102

Sierra Match King 168gr HPBT
Inputs= 168gr, Velocity 2400 fps from a 16" barrel, Ball Coef .447,

Energy & FPS @ Dist, Drop
2149, 2400, 0 , 0
1545, 2035, 200yds, 14.06,
1091, 1710, 400yds, 62.17
911, 1563. 500yds, 103.17

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

If interested, here's what Hilton Yam has to say on the TLE II:

"Given their designation suffix of "II", it would indicate that they have the Series II firing pin safety. Being very familiar with a batch of kimbers made especially for a large metropolitan SWAT team, I can say that no extra effort is made to "beef up" anything for duty use. These guns all had loose plunger tubes, loose sights, improperly cut feed ramps, and a host of other issues that made them more like "Kit, 1911 Parts - Some Assembly Required" and far from heavy duty. "

From the 10-8 forums:

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthread...661&Words=kimber&topic=&Search=true#Post80170

Wow, my buddies department carry the TLE custom II’s and they have nothing but great things to say about them. To be honest every Kimber I have picked up as been dead nuts on and a very well put together 1911. I was actually planning on picking up a TLE II next week and I am damn sure not spending that kind of money on crap.

I guess I will have to do some video’s on it’s performance at the range, so we can see if Kimber was just fucking with LAPD

 

[pardus]

Thanks koz!

Ive used a Kimber a couple of times for whatever reason I didn't like it.
I prefered the Colt 1911A1's Ive used. :2c:

Particularly a National Match, Gold Cup, series 70... slobber, drool...

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

If you are really looking for accuracy (1moa and better) from an M16 family platform...I think you would be hard pressed to find a better solution than the 18" barreled MK12 MOD 0/1...even suppressed it's length is unobtrussive.

I would not leave out a NM (SDMR) with 1/8 twist @ 20" barrel, You will get a little more out of it at 500 to 700 yards with 77's & 80's.

 

[HOLLiS]

I chronied my 7.5 inch AR and 16 inch one. Difference with the Military ss109 bullet was about 700 FPS, 2953 for the 16 inch barrel.
2286 for the 7.5 barrel. About a 700 FPS difference.

 

[pardus]

I chronied my 7.5 inch AR and 16 inch one. Difference with the Military ss109 bullet was about 700 FPS, 2953 for the 16 inch barrel.
2286 for the 7.5 barrel. About a 700 FPS difference.

Big difference, but like you say, a barrel that long isn't going to be used for taking shots at 300m, I hope not anyway lol

 

[Centermass]

Thanks for that. I might have to emulate you if I can't dig up a piston gun. I trust LMT's products 100% and an MRP will be easier to get.

Just a sample of what I get to "play with" at work :)

Nice PDW. MP7?

Some guys have all the fun.......

 

[WillBrink]

Wow, my buddies department carry the TLE custom II’s and they have nothing but great things to say about them. To be honest every Kimber I have picked up as been dead nuts on and a very well put together 1911. I was actually planning on picking up a TLE II next week and I am damn sure not spending that kind of money on crap.

I guess I will have to do some video’s on it’s performance at the range, so we can see if Kimber was just fucking with LAPD

All I can say is, speak to the people who truly have the creds as to what makes a "going to war" quality 1911 (Yam, Vicker, etc), and Kimber will not be on that list. Were I going to spend around what the TLE costs, an SA TRP up to SA pro would be my choice hands down, and I don't own any SA guns as of yet. Had I not gotten the SnW Custom 1911 for the $$$ I did, would have gone the SA route. Gun manufacturers, as you know, make deals with various depts, etc to supply in return for some bragging rights in their ads, so costs, politics, etc, etc often plays a much larger roll as to what X group ends up with. I'm not claiming to creds to be an authority on this topic, but I have done the homework via those that are, and can only direct you in their direction. Yam is a friendly guy generally happy to converse with people, and is one of, if not the, most respected 1911 smith (and an FBI agent I recall) in the biz, bar none.

BTW, due to the fire pin safety system in my S&Ws, it's a range/IDPA/course gun, not a CCW/combat gun. Kimber has the same system in it (see Yam's comments above) and by all accounts, S&Ws system has been better vetted out, as has their EE, which Kimber had to give up on finally due to so many problems with their EE.

It's the general opinion of those who are true authorities all all things 1911 for duty/CCW/going to war uses, that the Schwartz system represent a not acceptable risk to reliability and thus can't be recommended for those uses. That does not stop some depts. from using them however. I'm only passing that along, I have a first gen S&W 1911 with at least 30k-40k on it, and no issues with the Schwartz system, but I also will not CCW with it due to warnings from those who know more then I do on the topic.

That's just my :2c: and passing the info I have developed on the topic.